On writing: your opinion is needed.

[skoosiepants]

The best thing about writing fanfiction for me is that I’m constantly getting better. Unless I’m delusional, which, you know, isn’t that farfetched.

I’m currently reorganizing my fiction lists in order of year, and, I can totally be honest about this: if you’re reading anything from my early 2006 stuff all the way back to my 2003 beginnings? I pity you. Heck, even a lot of my later 2006 stuff makes me cringe, and while I think my 2007 stuff is too close to my heart right now, I’m sure next year I’ll look back and be like, eating babies, wot?

Anyway, my point is, the coolest part of being in these constantly evolving fandoms is that I can get better, and you all can tell me that. This feedback, this majorly extensive back and forth, you don’t get that anywhere else – also, hey betas, you’re AWESOME and occasionally UNDERAPPRECIATED, and should be given shiny gold medals with Bob Bryar’s grumpy face on them, or maybe Brendon’s hand giving you this totally cool thumbs-up, or, for you girl-betas out there, maybe a sparkly pin that just says: “If I wasn’t terrified of your zombie, hot-boy-eating ways, I’d totally full-on kiss you, I would! <3’s Bden Urie” - and I seriously wish the internet had been more prevalent when I was in high school, writing crappy stories with my best friend in my basement that mostly just ended up on a recorder – what are these ‘tape recorders’ of which you speak? - since we hardly ever got past the “planning” stage. My college writing workshops weren’t even this helpful. In retrospect, they pretty much taught me nothing, because you can take a look at my 2003 stuff and wonder what the hell I was on.

Which brings me to my next point: what’s the consensus on web removal? It’s the author’s prerogative, yes, and I have done it. I’ve taken one story down completely, and there’s two more that I just don’t list on my site, even though if you’re really dedicated you can ferret them out. Thoughts? Has anyone else done this, and what’s your reasoning behind it?

And then, what does everyone think of editing? Do any of you guys ever go back and re-write a story completely? If you’re embarrassed about what you now know and what you obviously didn’t know then, do you go back and edit it, write disclaimers, or do you display it as something you were once proud of, like your roots or whatever?

The huge bulk of my past writings are just plain horrible, but they were fun and I had fun writing them, so I’m just sort of waffling. Editing is a huge undertaking, especially for fics that aren’t on my short-list of current fandom crushes.

Help me out here! You all didn’t spring from the womb excellent, grade-A writers! Or, okay, maybe you did. Some of you are scary talented, peeps. Which makes me question your sanity in friending me, but whatever. My gain :)

Comments

[sinuous-curve.livejournal.com]

I did the same thing when I finally broke down and made a sticky post and, God, some of my first efforts are so bad they made me want to delete them into oblivion. ^_^

As for web removal, what I did was delete my fanfiction.net profiles, or clear them out, because fanfiction.net won't let you delete accounts. Most of those were written very early in high school and they had no redeeming factors whatsoever. However, I haven't deleted anything on my LJ because I like having a record of how I've improved. I think it's cool to be able to look back to the first stories I posted here and then look and my new stuff and be able to say "Hey, I actually have gotten better. Who knew?"

I've thought about going back and editing and I very well might end up doing that for a few stories where I particularly like the idea, but not the execution, but for the most part I can't get my short attention span to go back to what I've already done without rewriting it so much it's not really an edited fic, but a new fic altogether.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

Okay *nods* I like the idea of removing fics from websites like fanfiction.net - I didn't even think of that, but I think I'll do that, too! Did you have everything chronicled on LJ? Because I've got about a year and a half worth on FictionAlley because I didn't have an LJ. Did you transfer anything, or was everything already here for you?

I can't get my short attention span to go back to what I've already done without rewriting it so much it's not really an edited fic, but a new fic altogether I've got the same sort of fear. It's actually why I avoid beta'ing for people, because I think I'd just rewrite it to death, which isn't helpful at all.

[darksylvia.livejournal.com]

I hate it when authors I like take stuff down, but as an author, I get it.

However, I know a lot of excellent authors who are insecure (haha, wait, that's like the definition of the word) who think something-or-other-sucks when it was my FAVORITE STORY BY THEM, that sort of thing.

I do, occasionally think about taking down my Labyrinth story. It's riddled with grammar and spelling errors. But's still on people's favorite lists, so I just avoid re-reading it and leave it alone :D

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

Okay, yeah, you're right, it totally sucks when a bookmarked story disappears. I guess there are just elements of stories that certain people like, regardless of shoddy execution?

I just avoid re-reading it and leave it alone I like that :) Excellent advice! Do you ever think about going back and editing anything?

[idyll.livejournal.com]

Re: story removal.

I took my early early early stuff (from, like, 9 years ago) down because, ohdeargodthebadness and I really am not that writer any more. But I pretty much leave everything else up. I think that I, personally, will always look back on my fic and see in it what was weak/bad/poorly done; I'm my harshest critic.

If I kept taking stuff done because the flaws make me cringe in hindsight? There'd be nothing left.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

Wow, you've been in fandom SO LONG! I wish I had that track record :)

If I kept taking stuff done because the flaws make me cringe in hindsight? There'd be nothing left. point. for me, too, definitely, you're right *nods*

[insunshine.livejournal.com]

So when I was in fifth grade? I think it was fifth grade, because I went to Catholic school [even though I am nowhere near Catholic, lapsed or otherwise], I used to write stories with the band Hanson in them. And I mean, it wasn't slash or anything, because I was always there too -- and in point of fact, I was actually told, in my creative writing class [in fifth grade. Creative writing. Who would have thought?] I was told that I COULDN'T write Hanson in anymore.

It's pretty needless to say I was crushed.

And like, the other day, when I was trying to find a notebook for Gerard Way to write in, I found this old thing that I'd written like, years and years and years ago, off of an old TV show.

I've always done it, and so, like, I totally get what you mean.

There was totally a thread I was trying to follow there and I just lost it.

Whatever. Anyway! I know what you mean!

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

okay, first HANSON! That's totally adorable :)

I have these stacks of old journals. I want to throw them all out, they were so bad!

[joyfulseeker.livejournal.com]

I actually kind of support leaving everything up, warts and all, just because, sometimes it's inspiring to see how much a favored writer has improved over the years. I mean, for instance, astolat has some stuff that is just LIGHT YEARS away from what she can write now, and I think it's cool that I can still go back and look at it all and see that change is possible, you know?

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

I didn't think of it like that, but that's a really good point. also, astolat! she's so awesome!

[ravensorea.livejournal.com]

I think you should leave things up, because it's not really affectin you either way, although an idea would be to give them a little disclaimer saying you wrote this when you couldn't write or whatever. Plus, some people may really like those stories regardless of their errors.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

A disclaimer might be a good idea. I don't know, though, that makes me feel like I'm making excuses somehow? I'll probably end up not doing anything :)

[nunshavingfun.livejournal.com]

I think my writing is still shitty even after I edit it. I don't think I ever finish anything, I just give up on it and put it out there. Even with essays. Blah.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

it's not shitty! I think we all think that way about our stuff - it's never perfect.

[lorwyndaystar.livejournal.com]

So I'm going to start by saying that I understand why authors are interested in web removal, but at the same time, having old writing available for fans to read shows how much an author has improved over time. For instance, while I do love your old SGA stuff (I started following your writing early in 2006), especially Once Upon A Furry Octopus, I've had the opportunity to see you grow as a writer in this past year. With each new fic, it becomes increasingly evident that you're improving. My favorites, for you as well as other writers, tend to be the most recent stuff because I can see how much better it is than older stuff.

As for rewriting old stuff, that sounds like a spectacular idea. Of course, I say this from the standpoint of a college student who has been in fandom in some manner for the last 8 or 9 years, and I've just now reached the point where I'm happy enough with my writing to actually post something. Thankfully, most of my earlier writing was original fiction that I never posted anywhere, and I do occasionally attempt to rewrite that fiction. So rewriting old stuff seems like a really cool idea, because it gives writers an opportunity to take all the things they've learned and pour them into a story they know really well. I'd think the outcome would be spectacular. ^_^

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

awww, that's so sweet! I love that you can see the difference in my writing, so I guess in that respect it's really nice to have my old stuff out there! *hugs you*

As for rewriting old stuff, that sounds like a spectacular idea. It sounds good, but I don't know about the practicalities. It would certainly take a lot of time and work!

[turnyourankle.livejournal.com]

I've only removed one story (and it wasn't even removed really, I just changed the privacy level to private), and that was just because it was ridiculously bad. I want to lock/remove so many more but I can't bring myself to do it. For one, I really enjoy reading people's older fics even though they might be worse, for the sheer sake of tracing progress. Now, I'm really not at the point where people would go through my older stuff but maybe some day, I don't know -- like you said, the beauty of fandom is the constant improving!

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

For one, I really enjoy reading people's older fics even though they might be worse, for the sheer sake of tracing progress. this is true, I like doing that, too :)

like you said, the beauty of fandom is the constant improving! it's so much fun! each new story is a chance to get better! I love that :)

[strifechaos.livejournal.com]

The huge bulk of my past writings are just plain horrible
I think that everyone feels that way, because generally we're all improving and so looking at older works and just cringing is a common occurrence in fic writing.

Like a few other people have mentioned, I too have wiped my FF.Net fics from the face of the planet because they were just horrifyingly bad. Like 'oh-my-god-what-the-hell-was-I-thinking' sorta bad.

Still, it's a hard decision, because it's cool to be able to look back and see how far you've come but sometimes old fics are just skeletons that you'd rather have tripled locked in the closet, for securitysanity reasons. It's a sticky situation, but trust me you are hardly alone in being confronted with it. *grins* *glomps*

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

I think I was late to the gate on the fanfiction.net thing, so some of my fics there are actually ones that, well, are maybe not completely sucky. They're not great, but they're not my 2003 really, really horrifying bad fics. Which are on FA still *cringes* So I don't know, I want to purge it, but at the same time I don't want to. I just can't make up my mind!

It's a sticky situation, but trust me you are hardly alone in being confronted with it. *grins* *glomps* *glomps back*

[foxxcub.livejournal.com]

My college writing workshops weren’t even this helpful. In retrospect, they pretty much taught me nothing

A whole world of WORD. My wasted six hours toward a masters in creative writing, let me show you it. I've grown and developed and improved as an author more in the last three years (since getting back heavily into fanfic) than I EVER did through workshops. Fanfic writing is theraputic, and you learn so much more from your fandom peers than you ever would from some schmo with a PhD telling you your plot doesn't ring true. *hugs fandom*

I will edit fics after I've posted them, but only within a few days of said posting. After that, I figure they're done, even if I'm not completely happy with them. I'm gradually learning to edit more as I go along instead of doing one massive go-over prior to shipping the thing off to the betas, heh.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

God, I had to take four workshops for my little minor, and it was so laughable. I wish like burning I had this writing forum when I was younger, I really do!

I will edit fics after I've posted them, but only within a few days of said posting. I do the same *nods* Although, I absolutely cannot go back and read one of my older fics without editing it in my head as I go along, though. That's probably a sign I should go back and edit them anyway, but it's so much work!

'm gradually learning to edit more as I go along instead of doing one massive go-over prior to shipping the thing off to the betas, heh. *laughs* I edit the crap out of my fic before I send it to betas... it's almost like just posting it, only not :)

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I'll try to thread the eye of the needle here. First, I'm not a writer, just and appreciative reader and I hate not being able to find a story that I loved or just want to reread when I get a hankering for it. But, I understand that you are not the same writer anymore and don't want these stories to represent you. So I would like to ask that if you decide to pull the stories, just warn your readers and leave them up for a week or two. That would give me time to download anything I want to my own hard drive so I could reread when I want to. If you said feel free to download, but please don't share, I would respect that and so would most readers I suspect. Or you could do what Karen McFadyyon did, pull the stories, but allow distribution by email if someone requests one of the old stories. Just a suggestion.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

See, I hate when that happens with writers I like, so I'm leaning towards just leaving everything up anyway, I think. I might go back and edit some things, though, maybe something I really liked the concept of. If I ever decide to take anything down, though, I will definitely let everyone know :)

[self-sustaining.livejournal.com]

I've been reading your older stuff lately, and I like it quite a bit. It's not that it's bad, but you have definitely improved. And I can see why you wouldn't like it now because I do the same thing. My writing definitely isn't on par with yours, though. I love your wit and your ability to make the characters feel so real.

I don't think I'd take something down because it is something I've done, and it's nice sometimes to see that growth. And also for the fact that because I don't like it doesn't mean someone else doesn't. I like the idea of editing something, or re-writing it, although I haven't done it myself. Our english teacher tells us a lot that a story isn't ever really done, there's always room for improvement.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

Awww, thank you! I had some real POV problems until late last year, I think *nods* which are basically unfixable unless I want to rewrite whole fics, which I really, really don't.

My writing definitely isn't on par with yours, though. I love your wit and your ability to make the characters feel so real. thanks muchly, hon! I would argue about your writing, because you're definitely awesome, and also might I add that I am old, and this is all I have :) hee!

With me, characters are my big strong point. Plot, not so much *g*

I like the idea of editing something, or re-writing it, although I haven't done it myself. Our english teacher tells us a lot that a story isn't ever really done, there's always room for improvement. I guess if it's a story concept that I still really like, it's worth it to edit it. Some are probably just hopeless, though :)

[nutty-moo.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a stalker of many fic sites it really sucks when people take down there old fics. Especially if you loved them.

However, if you were to give the stalkers warning so that we may save them down or print them. We just don't want them to disappear :)

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

I hate that, too, so that's a really good point *nods* I probably will end up leaving everything alone, 'cause I'm lazy like that *g*

[leupagus.livejournal.com]

Well, I haven't written much in the past few years, and what I do have was almost all Smallville-related - but there were some stories that I yanked for various reasons. I think it's really an advantage to being in fandom; it's not like Stephen King can go, "My God, what was I thinking writing *Salem's Lot*? I'm yankin' it, yo." (Not that he ever would, because it's a good book - come to think of it, he probably wouldn't say "yo" either, coming from the folksy state of Maine and whatnot. Maybe "by golly"?) But as writers of fic, I think it's a case of "It's mine, so if I don't like it any more, I'm not posting it any more."

But! The thing about writing is that opinions go both ways. You've probably written stuff that you're really proud of, but has gotten a lukewarm response. So think about this: that horrible stuff is probably someone's favorite story, or stories. Someone out there likes everything you've written, and they'll be disappointed that it's no longer available. So you run the risk of... I dunno, hurting someone's feelings.

Short version: it's completely up to you, but don't be surprised if you get requests for a "bad story" that you've pulled.

Plus, I'd love to know what stories you think are horrible - I've read a lot of your work, and it'd be interesting to compare notes.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

By golly! I wish I could get away with saying that. Heck, I'm going to say it anyway. It's right up there with 'boy howdy' :)

*sigh* I think I'm going to leave everything up, just let my badness hang out. I tend to really not like most of my Harry Potter stuff, actually. And the ones I do really like, like Don't Let's Start or DT, I kind of want to completely re-write/edit. If I had the time!

[airgiodslv.livejournal.com]

I have written things that make me *cringe* now, and I will never look at them again, ever; but every time I think about deleting them, I remember that someone, when I first posted, always left a message saying something like "this really touched me," or "I loved every word," or "*memories!*" even if it is and was complete crap. And it feel like even though I wrote it and therefore have the right to delete it, the joy of being part of a fandom is that we feed off of each other and share our joy and the things we love, and I don't want to take any part of someone else's joy away. We all have different tastes, and even if something isn't necessarily the best ever written, maybe there's a line in there that someone feels the need to go back and read, every few months, or a scene that will inspire someone to write something else. Maybe there's someone out there who hasn't discovered your writing yet, and deserves to be given that chance. So that's my opinion. :-)

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

very good point! I guess it's kind of cool that some one liked my old fics, even if my own tastes have changed. gah! It's just embarrassing, but I guess it would be sort of a cop-out to take them down.

[adellyna.livejournal.com]

I am late to this, whoops. I wish I had valuable insight! But sadly, I just started writing fic in this fandom. Erm, bandom, obviously. Ask me again in a year, and I'll tell you how I feel about leaving, like, Wedding Planner AU up, or something.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

Dude, you can't ever take that down! there'd be angry mobs and everything *nodsnods*

[korilian.livejournal.com]

I have removed a one chapter WIP off FF.net that's never going to go anywhere, but mostly I just leave it up, even if it makes me cringe.I have maybe one story that I'm actually happy with.

I'm not in favor of story removal, because I love to reread stories. And the stories that I love to reread the most aren't always well written, or well plotted. They just have something (maybe even just one scene), that pushes my buttons.

I vote leave it up. I for one am still mourning a little drabble that was taken down a few years back.

[skoosiepants.livejournal.com]

I took everything off of FF.net, but I think they're all posted somewhere else - even if I'm not linking to it from my fic pages.